Maureen Jann is a veteran B2B marketer whose career in digital media has grown up with the Internet. She is currently the Founder and Managing Director of SuperDeluxe Marketing, a marketing, content, and thought leadership strategy agency on the outskirts of Seattle.
She and her husband have broken out of traditional roles to successfully balance their family’s needs while growing three businesses. She shares with us what keeps their lifestyle ticking, what motivates her, and her passion for entrepreneurship.
In this episode
We talk about:
- she manages time for herself and her family while operating three businesses
- how those businesses are what she calls her “insurance policy”
- an unconventional lifestyle have made she and her husband happier and more successful
- we also find out about her dislike for Phil Collins and the month of February J
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JM: Hey, Maureen. How are you today?
MJ: I’m great. How are you, Jenn?
JM: I am so good. I am really happy to talk to you. You are fascinating to me. I met you through a mutual Facebook group that we are on and I swear every time I talk to you or see you, you’re involved in a new business so I’m excited to talk to you about just your passion for entrepreneurship and just how you do it all because a lot of my clients, they own one business. I myself am involved in multiple businesses and I know, for me, it’s crazy and I know for a lot of my clients, being involved in one business and growing that is more than enough to keep us busy so I’m excited to hear your perspective on that. Tell me about which businesses you’re involved in right now.
MJ: Before I dive right into that, I will tell you like part of my reasoning around being part of multiple businesses with an insurance policy for the majority of the work that I do supports my family essentially so I think when you spread your efforts around, it offers you a little bit of variety much like a stock portfolio and so that’s some of the reasoning behind why I do so many things.
To start though, my main business is SuperDeluxe Marketing. I’m actually a marketing agency that focuses on content marketing, marketing strategy and some execution as well around those things. The nut of what I do is try to help my customers and my clients find their most profitable prospects and turn them into customers. I get to dig into the psychology behind why there are less customers or who they are and help them sort of map that out so that they understand them better and we can build a program around that to help them go after them and turn them from visitors to actual customers. It’s really fun and I get to do a ton of variety, everything from scouring people’s data to creating social media updates, it’s a blast, it’s totally a hoot.
Then the other thing that I do is I’m an Analyst and a Chief Product Officer at a company called Remodista and I’m a partner in that business. Basically, what I have done over the last couple of years for them is help build their Thought Leadership Library, create new products that can be sold to the retail industry and then I also write a lot of the insights that come around or come from the information that we collect from our community of retail brand leaders. I also do a lot of traveling on behalf of that business so we got a lot of conferences and we cover what they’re covering and then we run events there.
Then finally, I run all of these businesses out of the co-working space that I am partnered with a couple of other folks here in a suburb of Seattle. We actually own the co-working space and I run my businesses out of the co-working space and it gives a whole new meaning to local marketing because it’s not something I’ve ever done before and so I’m learning a ton and it’s a very exciting and very busy life. I like to think that I won’t die thinking I didn’t do enough.
JM: I completely agree with you. They all seem to sort of neatly fold together or have overlap so that they make sense. Was that something intentional or do you just kind of seize the opportunities that make sense when they present themselves?
MJ: It has been a very organic process and like my marketing business, my agency came from being a freeway up for about fifteen years and then I ended up getting laid off and I made a choice not to go back. It’s grown to the point where I have a team. The retail industry business from Remodista, the reason I ended up as a partner in that at all is because I didn’t have a budget when I was working in-house as a marketer and so the best thing I could do was trade skill for sponsorship. After she saw my work over time, she could see how we would be good partners and then it just sort of folded together that I could use my marketing skills to help build that business and then I was working out of a coworking space, and the entrepreneur who is owning it at the time [inaudible 00:04:22] move on to a new project and I just thought, first of all, the only coworking space in my area and it just seemed crazy to let that go and if the opportunity felt too juicy and I had a partner, a built-in partner and so for me it seemed like a no-brainer because of the business model that the co-working space runs on. So for me, they were opportunistic but they’re also connected because I think that’s the way that the organic nature of the work that I do run.
JM: That’s very cool. Do you find that the businesses sort of feed each other? I mean do you find that there are times that you are working with one of those businesses and feel that would really be a better referral for another business? Do you think that’s been a good way for you to go in finding businesses even though it sort of happens that way? Do you feel like that’s been beneficial that they’ve been related businesses? Is your advice for others listening maybe that they would find other related businesses?
MJ: They absolutely feed each other. The co-working space is a hotbed for new businesses and small businesses and medium businesses and I am a great resource for them from a marketing perspective because I love startups and I work with them frequently and I have programs built for them so it’s absolutely one-for-one on that way and then I can use the marketing business to help when I work with clients to the local and say, “Hey, if you don’t already have a space to hang out, you should come meet me at my coworking space and we’ll talk there and then maybe it’s a good fit for you,” so they absolutely feed each other.
The retail business is separate just because it ends up being kind of an enterprise level program for the clients that we bring in so it tends to be all sort of off in its own space but the skills I’ve learned on that side absolutely make me better at my job all the way across so yeah, if you can make them related and they can work together with businesses that help support each other, that makes a ton of sense.
But I think the key really is making sure that each of those businesses has different business models and they can appeal to separate markets even though they were related so that way you never exhaust those markets in a way that you can’t continue to leverage them.
JM: I really love that. It’s excellent advice and I appreciate you sharing that as an entrepreneur who survived the great recession. I think it’s really great that you’ve also got those different audiences and models too, because anytime there’s disruption in a particular industry, if they’re all very, very similar businesses that you’re involved in then, they are potentially all negatively impacted so it seems like there’s probably some protection there for you as well.
MJ: Absolutely. Since I’m the majority breadwinner in my house, it is so super duper critical for me to make sure that I am mitigating that risk. I mean, even so, you’ll laugh when I tell you this, I’m actually working on a couple of other projects that are more subscription-based beyond the programs that I have built now so that way, the passive income is an option or an opportunity for when the next recession hits. Because I just think it’s a critical way when people stop doing custom or taking on custom services, they’re going to start like trying to be DIY and I want to benefit from that as well. For me, it’s insurance, I’m the queen of insuring my business and the efforts that I’m putting out into the world.
JM: I love that. It’s such great advice. It’s great insight. I’m going to ask you honestly, how many hours are you working for a week? As you’re talking about this, that’s the question that comes to me and I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, do you sleep?
MJ: I mean do you want to include like parenting or not?
JM: All the job.
MJ: I mean that’s a job, right?
JM: It is, full-time job on top of everything else.
MJ: Right, absolutely. I would say that I am blessed with being very efficient. However when I get overwhelmed, I work more slowly and so I work between six and ten hours a day depending on what’s happening. But being a parent of a youngin, like I have a six-year old and so the reality of I want to be of her life and I want to make sure that I get to participate in that so I can’t go too crazy or overwork myself. But it also doesn’t mean that at some point, because I can’t work super long hours that I start feeling really overwhelmed.
This week for instance, I had a total meltdown because like I’m exhausted and I look at all the things that I have to do in the time frame that I have to do them and I really genuinely don’t know how I’m going to get it all done. I don’t want to work all weekend because that doesn’t do me any good either, it’s really important for me to balance that. I learned a couple of really hard lessons this last couple of months because we had some personal stuff happening and then we took on a new business then there’s a coworking space and then we also got two new puppies, which by the way is total suicide.
JM: Oh, my, total chaos.
MJ: Then the personal and family stuff that was going on, it became very stressful from like an emotional side which instantly drains me like I can deal with work stress but then if you add like personal stress on top of that, it makes it very hard for me to keep up the pace that I’m used to. I am so sort of reeling from that still because I think once your reserves are so low and any outside of the realm or any surprises or any stressors that are unexpected tend to make you like it just tends to be pretty exhausting. What I’m doing right now, I’m in an active phase of creating space and time for myself to recover from a lot of bad stuff so I’ve created a couple of rules to help me make some time and be better balanced.
JM: That’s very cool. Do you want to share one of those?
MJ: Sure, I’ll share all of them.
MJ: A couple of things that you and I both know, if you have children are you have just like a lot of demands on the weekend, weekends aren’t restful, but that’s just life, anybody who tells you differently is crazy or they have a maid. I have decided for myself that I’m going to take one day off a month where I just do stuff for me and it’s going to be during the week and it can be really hard and I’m going to struggle with not checking my email every five minutes but my next one is next Monday and I have to tell you I’m very excited about it. The reason I’m excited is because I had booked some awesome stuff for myself, I’m getting a massage and I’m getting a pedicure and then I’m getting my brows waxed and I’m going to read a book and I’m going to eat some ice cream and it’s going to be awesome. I’m really excited about it.
JM: That is awesome. I started doing that on Fridays because I love to kind of roll into the weekend and making time. I kind of alternate my Fridays where a Friday will be a sort of self-care day or it will be a day where I get to sort of run the errands or do some of the things that I can’t get done during the week without making myself crazy and it is difficult to make that space.
For me, it was a mindset thing making that time is non-negotiable. It’s been extremely difficult and every once in awhile, the nice thing is it’s also that safety net where if the shit hits the fan and I really like we’re on deadline for something internal, that is sort of this little extra space on the calendar but I try not to let that happen. But it was a big mindset shift, and I don’t know if you’ve ever felt like this, but it was almost the sense of like guilt to take that time thinking about everybody that needs all the things and here I am, I’m going to take this day for myself. But it’s been a lifesaver in so many ways.
MJ: Yeah, but the guilt is what got me like guilt is one of those things that eat up my soul like I’m very susceptible to it and it really wrecks me. I have to make the conscious choice to cut the cord with guilt. I’ve spent my whole life trying to avoid guilt because it makes me feel really terrible. For me, one of the things that in that self-care framework is actually just remembering that I work really hard and I almost never take the easy way out and it’s likely that if I give myself with space to reflect and be conscious and rest a little, that I will be a better mom, I’ll be a better wife and I’ll be a hell of a better worker.
JM: Yeah, yeah, it’s so true.
MJ: It offsets the guilt pretty effectively for me because my mom was a hardcore worker, she’s an entrepreneur almost my whole life, she was insanely efficient. She had kids when she was nineteen and she was trying to get us out of poverty, I mean just this incredible work ethic but it turns out that work ethic is you inherit it because it’s in my genes and it means that you don’t know when to stop. So I really had to work hard to flip the script for myself to remember that it’s okay to take care of yourself and I don’t have my mom put it back, it’s like you can change the story and I just thought, God that’s really, really effective and it was really helpful to me to remember that I don’t have to grind at that same level all the time even though I really have to work hard because I mean, as you know, I’m a busy person and there are a lot of things that need to get done and there’s no question about that. But if I don’t take that time, I’m going to get sick. That’s the fundamentals like your health suffers and yeah, it’s just really interesting. That’s one of the things I did was take that day off.
Then a couple of other things was I’ve been on keto for the last four months and I feel amazing and it totally makes me feel better but I really miss the food I enjoy. I like ice cream. I really like ice cream. It feels oftentimes when you’re trying to manage your health, it feels like another job. For me I wanted to take a moment where I could just eat the cheeseburger and so once a week I just gave myself a break, I just stop banging on myself about that particular thing.
JM: Yeah, yeah, that’s helpful.
MJ: It makes it easier for me to be good during the week, or not even good but to make good choices for myself during the week because I know that at the end of the week I want to have a milkshake, I can.
JM: It’s coming. Yeah, it’s interesting. Same for me, I don’t know, maybe six months ago, I started working with a personal trainer and a nutritionist and working with my general physician and a therapist. It’s been really helpful for me because I did have to get out of that mindset where it did feel like it’s another job but I had also that sort of that judgment about it’s good or it’s bad and when things go bad, you just really let them go.
I love what you say, it’s really about investing in yourself and it goes hand-in-hand with the time off. It’s like having the rest that you need, getting the sleep that you need, having some time to take care of yourself, putting good foods in your body, drinking enough water, all those things are important for a high achiever to remain at a high level of importance but then there has to come the time that it’s just for enjoyment like it’s just for fun so it’s excellent advice.
MJ: Yeah, so those are two of the things that I did to help myself. The other thing is I hate February like I literally [inaudible 00:16:01]. I also hate Phil Collins but unrelated, but still equally random.
JM: Good to know.
MJ: It’s sort of those things. My friends love to make fun of me about this because I like actively disliked Phil Collins.
JM: Why do you hate February?
MJ: There’s something about February like you end up coming out of the holiday is where it’s like just been hearing a giant pressure cooker and like everything that you need to do around Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate, what I found is that because I’m responsible for so much of that, I’ve come out of holidays just exhausted and so I’m trying to use January to recover but it’s also the time where everybody starts to ramp up, especially, if you have your own business like from a sales perspective, everybody since leaving since Christmas or since Thanksgiving, so you have to hustle and grind in January to make sure that you have enough business going in the first quarter.
If you look at that, by the time February comes around, you’re exhausted, you’re just out of juice and it turns out I was looking at my Facebook reminders like they serve you the memories, every February I’m a little angry and I’m trying to find a vacation to book. That’s how I ended up going to Morocco like in this burst of just planning an escape. So what I’m trying to do now is instead of like surprise trips to ask any countries, I’m attempting to pre-plan them and so I told my husband, “Look, I promise I won’t accidentally trip over the Ottoman and book a flight to Morocco this year if we can plan a vacation in February,” and he’s like, “Okay,” I was like, “Look, I gave you a year’s notice,” and he’s like, “Yes, you did.”
An Unconventional Lifestyle
JM: That’s awesome. It’s really important to get in touch with kind of the ebbs and flows, not just of your day or your month. We talk about that in our group, how important it is to look at your entire year and figure out by the time December rolls around, I want to be in maintenance mode with my business. It’s not time for a ramp up, it’s not time to be aggressive, it’s time to spend time with my family and just kind of take care of the things that we have already built for the year and then the same thing with summer, it’s like as my kids get older, it gets harder to get away with them during the school year so it’s really looking at planning out that time so that you reserve that space for you. I think kudos to you for planning that ahead and not tripping over the Ottoman again this year and ending up somewhere exotic, just isn’t horrible.
Tell me a little bit about how you and your husband kind of manage all the work and the whole life because you guys, you’ve shared with me in the past that you kind of break things up a little bit kind of maybe unconventionally.
MJ: Yeah, it turns out that my husband is absolutely the rock of our family in a lot of ways, in fact most ways, because I am all over the place and super busy and he likes to describe me as the butterfly in our relationship and he’s like the sturdy foundation where the butterfly can land on. I think that’s pretty accurate. He basically makes sure that we don’t have to wear dirty clothes and also the house doesn’t fall down and that the dogs don’t run away and he’s also a phenomenal human being when it comes to being able to listen to just the barrage of information that comes out of my mouth which you can tell is probably not insignificant.
JM: But it’s all good stuff.
MJ: Oh, yeah, hundred percent. He loves me exactly the way I am which is magical but he definitely tends to keep the home kept up which in turn means that my job is to go and he has a job, it’s just that it doesn’t have the the same mental load that my job does so he has more space for it which is amazing and he’s also incredibly supportive of the businesses. What I do, in fact, one of the businesses, he actually, in the co-working space he acts as the facilities managers so he makes sure things don’t break and that the light bulbs are on and all that good stuff. He’s incredibly supportive and I am just so super duper grateful.
He grew up with a really strong mom a who’s a ground breaker in her own right and so he knew what he was getting into I think to some degree but I was up to twenty-three when we met, which is not the same intensity about human being that I am now, I was banging in the wall, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I would grow up and then it turns out, “Oh, God, what have I done?” I’m sure on some levels he’s thinking to himself but for the most part we are very complementary and he doesn’t fall into typical gender roles, he comes from a more traditional East Coast background and there had definitely been some spaces where we bang into that and I’m like an exceedingly rabid feminist and I don’t mean that in a manheating way, that’s not a thing, I mean that I believe that I have every right as anybody else in that as a woman and we’re raising a six-year-old daughter and so I get very passionate about it and he’s like, “Whoa, girl, back up. I’m on your team.”
It’s an interesting balance and we keep each other really honest and we’ve gone through a lot of therapy to help build up the toolkit to help us be able to manage the tough times and the times when we don’t agree or when we have hurt feelings. I genuinely heart of hearts believe that saved our marriage on more than one occasion.
JM: I totally agree and I want to tell you thank you right now for sharing that information because I think even though there’s more awareness around mental health and acceptance of pinpointing it, identifying it, and then receiving help for it, there’s more awareness and acceptance around that, there’s still a stigma to it and I will yell it from the top of the mountain, therapy has changed my life, it has definitely improved my marriage, we worked around this serious illness of one of our children which luckily that we are past that and he’s doing really well but just for any number of reasons in my life, we are kind of like perpetual therapy people where we finally found a really good one and stuck with it.
I just think especially as women entrepreneurs, we have so much on our plates and it’s hard like even when you have a great supportive husband, which I couldn’t do without mine, I mean he’s the same thing, he does all the laundry, he does the dishes, I mean he is just this amazing, amazing person and my life would look totally different without him, but it’s like no matter how much support you have, you’re still one-hundred and ten percent invested in your child and being there for the school programs or, “Oh, I have to remember today’s field day and you need a sunscreen and extra water and all these things,” I mean there’s just no end to the things that we are dealing with. Then maybe you’re also taking care of a parent like I was or you’re dealing with the stuff that you grew up with in childhood that you brought into your marriage and therapy I think has probably been the number one key to my success in terms of it is what turned me onto mindfulness and to slowing down and to, “Oh, my gosh, these symptoms are actually anxiety and I have to deal with that to perform at my best.” I really appreciate you mentioning that because I do think it’s very important. I think if there’s something that you’re tackling, you don’t have to deal with it alone so thanks for sharing that.
MJ: Yeah, really I mean, I am also a very verbal advocate and so is my husband about therapy and the importance of therapy. The reality is that we go into marriage wildly unprepared to be married. We have no idea, I don’t think, what that really looks like until you get into it especially to get married young, you’re growing up, you’re figuring out who you are and you’re trying to be a partner at the same time and so often what we do is we end up trying to bang around in it and we don’t have the tools to work through the challenges and then things get harder and then you’re in a pressure cooker and of course you’re going to break. I think that anybody who’s ever run of the part where things get hard or if they changed drastically and you just feel like you’re at odds with your partner like why wouldn’t you go, have somebody help you work through and give you some new tools to take on this new challenge? It just makes total sense to me.
JM: I totally agree. I don’t know anybody who ever the long term doesn’t grow and change and we knew each other in high school and we were married in our mid-twenties which I think is maybe a little bit young these days but yeah, it’s like of course you’re going to grow and change and you want to make sure as much as possible that you’re kind of growing and changing in the same direction. I love that which brings me, I think this is a good segue, I have heard you say something to the effect that there’s no one right way to do it, tell me a little bit about what that means to you.
Breaking out of the Stereotype
MJ: I think it starts with the idea that I have always been really, really different. I never felt like I fit in with what I was told being a woman should be, like I’m strong, I’m crazy opinionated, I have a loud booming voice. I laugh really hard. I work really hard and none of those things, aside from my mom, where what I was being told in the market, via media, and the people I talk to was what a woman should be and I just really struggled with it in my twenties and I just thought, “Oh, I’m wrong,” that I’m broken and I don’t understand why I’m not like everybody else.
It turns out that the whole ‘what a woman should be’ is a load of bullshit and what came out of it for me and that there are so many ways to be a woman and I’ve seen this and not just a woman but a person and it doesn’t matter if you’re a man or you’re a woman or you’re genderfluid or you’re trans or whatever you are and there are ways to be a person that does go beyond what the framework of society tells you it needs to be.
For instance when I became a mom, I really struggled with the mom concept because what happened for me about that, there’s some sort of family of origins stuff that was happening in my brain that said that I needed to look like June Cleaver and I knew that wasn’t going to happen for me so I really struggled with what is that balance between being the perfect mom and being me and where does that meet in the middle for my kid and her needs and what our family needed and what I needed.
I think we have to just put things in context for ourselves and throw away the notion of should and talk about what I am and how I can use those skills to help make me better at being a business owner or being a wife or being a mom. There’s just no one way to do it. There are a million ways to do it, you can customize and craft and curate that experience for yourself in whatever way works for you and feels right for you and fits with your ethics and your morals and what you’ve built for yourself is valid.
JM: Absolutely, and it’s such a great point because I think this is what gets so difficult, we all feel like we have to have like the Pinterest-worthy birthday parties for our kids and we have to get up and bake muffins every morning and we live very much in this social media world where on Instagram, those lifestyle influencers, it’s like everything is handmade and it’s beautiful and the house is always clean and it’s bullshit, I mean, for most of us like I know for me it’s like whack-a-mole around here like you get one problem dealt with and something else pops up and it is like a pressure cooker, I heard you use that term earlier and you start to feel like nothing is enough and you’re trying to do it the way the world has dictated to you that you should be doing or that the role models that we see in the media. It is just not realistic.
I do feel that for me, that is a lot of where my anxiety came from which was really at its height like two to three years ago until I finally had to have that realization of I don’t have to do it that way like I get to just crumple up that plan and throw it away and start with a fresh sheet of paper and kind of figure out based on my priority is what is important to me, what does that schedule look like, what does that lifestyle look like, who are the people that were asking for help because I was horrible about asking for help. I would never ask for help, I would sit around. This is like way back to my early days of starting my first business in 2005. I hired my first employee and I would wonder like, “Don’t they see how crazy I am?” and my husband, “Doesn’t he see how crazy I am?” except for the thing is like I don’t ever want to look like I am having a hard time, I don’t want to look weak and I’m expecting people to read my mind.
You have to have help when you get to that level, you absolutely have to have help and then it became, well what kind of help do we need? We want to find a wonderful person that can spend a couple of afternoons a week with our boys so that they’re not in aftercare but that they’re home and working on homework or taking care of things at home or playing in the backyard even though I still need to work and just really starting to look at yes, I do want to take Fridays off so I have some time. It’s really hard I think in the beginning for me personally, I had to get more confidence in my ability to know that just because I take some time on Friday doesn’t mean that I don’t then go pick up where I left off or I’m missing deadlines, that took time for me to get to that place as a business owner but it’s an excellent, excellent point. We do need to take the time to just look at the lives that we are creating and be extremely intentional and it’s okay to start over if that isn’t currently working for you.
MJ: Yeah, and it’s okay to throw away things that don’t work too like things you’ve learned and you notice, you just don’t jive and they may have something who’s been something that got passed down from your family or your history or whatever and just having the bravery to say no, this doesn’t work for me anymore, I’ve got to let it go.
JM: Yeah, I don’t have to do it that way. I know you are a wealth of information. If I asked you for your top three tips that you would offer or three insights that you would offer as an entrepreneur who is very busy and very successful from from your perspective, what would those be?
MJ: Ooh, okay. The biggest one I think is acting in line with your integrity and making sure that whatever you’re doing is going with the flow and that sounds like, it’s just the worst cliche ever, but it’s in flow with your beliefs and what you do when you feel is fundamentally right. For me, I am so grateful to be working working on my own business because it means that I get to make those choices, I get to say, “You know what? This person who’s marketing doesn’t feel right to me or it doesn’t jive with my personal integrity.”
On the front page of my website, it says we support these nonprofit organizations because a portion of our revenue goes there and I get to make that choice, I don’t have to sit around and wait for somebody to give me approval and so what I would say is just make sure that you are supporting and choosing the path that best supports your morality and your ethical perspective and be one with your integrity, live, breathe, walk your integrity. I think it reduces your anxiety because you know that you’re not in conflict with something you truly believe in and then the second part of that is that I feel like you’ll probably, because you believe in it, you’ll be better at providing the services around that.
MJ: That’s one thing. I would say the other thing is that try to have one or two fun projects that you really enjoy that not only makes you a ton of money which is great, money is great but make sure that you’re doing things that actually fulfill you from a client perspective of a customer perspective, sell something that just brings you joy to make or work with a company that just is purely delightful. It fills your bucket.
Then the final piece of advice I would say is always look behind you and see who you can help up the ladder. You were helped by people likely, somebody gave, took a chance on you, make sure that you’re looking behind you and give it and take a chance on somebody who deserves that chance so, those are my three pieces of advice.
JM: Those are excellent. I love that and really truly, I think those three tips are real ingredients for happy sane business so I appreciate those. They’re really great points. We are running out of time, this has been such a great conversation and I am guessing that people listening will want to continue this conversation with you. If they want to reach out to you, how can they find you, Maureen?e
MJ: You can follow me on social media, I’m @SuperDeluxeMo on Twitter and I’m a pretty active participant in Twitter. Feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn and tell me how you heard about me and let’s see if there’s a good reason for us to stay connected. Then you can also visit my website for my marketing business at superdeluxemarketing.com. I’d love to chat with you especially if you are a startup or have a brand that is looking for more profitable customers. That’s something that I delight in doing and I get really excited about working with people especially in small businesses. I’m super passionate about helping people live a fuller life by using marketing in a way that’s really strategic for them and helps you make more money, helps you be more fulfilled by the customers that you choose that you can be less stressed and you can have more fun with your kids on the weekend. That’s what I love doing.
JM: I love it, that’s awesome.
MJ: If anybody’s interested in chatting about that kind of thing, I would encourage them to reach out in any of those ways.
JM: Perfect, and we’ll make sure that those links are in the show notes for this episode at brandwithcatalyst.com and same here, if you’d like to reach out, I’d love to hear from listeners. Feel free to reach out on the contact page of brandwithcatalyst.com. Maureen, thanks so much for your time.
MJ: Thank you. It was great being here.
JM: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll do it again. I will talk to you soon.
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